Kan ik "CD Horn EQ" instellen op een DCX2496?

Dré schreef:

CD Correctie is dus alleen van toepassing op Constant Directivity hoorns (en speakers uit het jaar 0 hadden natuurlijk geen CD horns ;-)

Beter is het om gewoon JOUW systeem vlak te trekken (of, indien prettiger, 3dB/octaaf afval boven de 150Hz).

Webbie schreef:

Hoe noemen ze dan zo'n Peavey SP-1 hoorn, radiaal?

Wat bedoel je met die "3dB/octaaf afval boven de 150Hz", moet ik dat ergens instellen of wat anders?

Dré schreef:

Pak een stukje log papier Zet een stipje op 0dB bij 150Hz. Zet een stipje op -3dB bij 300Hz, stipje op -6dB bij 600Hz etc. etc. etc. Maak die curve zo goed mogelijk na in de DCX-2496.

Webbie schreef:

Bedoel je met log-papier die grafieken uit de pdf? Sorry, maar ik ben een echte n00b in deze materie.

Greetz Webbie...

joepvandemortel schreef:

Log papier is logaritmisch papier. Dit herken je aan dat de streepjes eerst ver van elkaar af zitten en dan steeds korter bij elkaar komen. Meestal zijn deze strepen vertikaal (ligt er een beetje aan hoe je het papier vast houd ;)).

Hier maar een voorbeeldje om dit wazige verhaal ietwat te verduidelijke,linkje

Webbie schreef:

Kan ik een "CD Horn EQ" ook nabootsen op de Behringer DCX-2496?

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Topic: Bi-amping a SP-1. (1 of 8), Read 51 times
Conf: PA Enclosures
From: webbie admin at nientje.nl
Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 06:55 PM

Hello,

I've replaced all the drivers on my SP-1 with new ones. The bass i replaced with 350 Watts 1504-4 BW, and the mid/high with the 22XT.

Now my questions:
- What crossover frequency i must use on my electronic crossover (Behringer DCX2496) to bi-amp my SP-1's.

- Do i need "CD Horn EQ" for the mid/high 22XT horns?

- I have already a PV® 900 amp, can i use this amp for the mid/high's? And witch other PV® must i use for the bass?

I hope you can help me, thanks in advance.

Cheers Webbie...

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Topic: Bi-amping a SP-1. (2 of 8), Read 40 times
Conf: PA Enclosures
From: Aubrey afulton at peavey.com
Date: Thursday, February 24, 2005 09:24 AM

Hello, Please see my response below each question.

On 2/23/2005 6:55:07 PM, webbie wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I've replaced all the drivers
>on my SP-1 with new ones. The
>bass i replaced with 350 Watts
>1504-4 BW, and the mid/high
>with the 22XT.
>
>Now my questions:
>- What crossover frequency i
>must use on my electronic
>crossover (Behringer DCX2496)
>to bi-amp my SP-1's.
****The internal crossover frequency is 600Hz. This is the minimum frequency allowed by the horn.
>
>- Do i need "CD Horn EQ" for
>the mid/high 22XT horns?
****Yes.
>
>- I have already a PV® 900
>amp, can i use this amp for
>the mid/high's? And witch
>other PV® must i use for the
>bass?
****The PV 900 can work while in the stereo mode to power two 22XT drivers. Since they have a 160 watts peak rating and the PV 900 produces 180 watts per channel into 8 ohms. While this is a bit too much power it should work. Or, you can use one channel of the PV 900 which produces 300 watts per channel into 4 ohms. This equals 150 watts for each of the two 8 ohm drivers. This is a bit safer power match. The 1504-4 woofers are rated at 350 watts continuous and 700 watts program each so that equals 700 watts continuous and 1400 watts program for two of them together. You could use a GPS 1500 or a CS 800X or CS800S or CS 1200H in the bridge mode. Or, a PV 2600 in the stereo mode with one speaker per channel. Thanks,
Aubrey
>
>I hope you can help me, thanks
>in advance.
>
>Cheers Webbie...

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Topic: Bi-amping a SP-1. (3 of 8), Read 39 times
Conf: PA Enclosures
From: Marty - pevy016
Date: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:46 AM

Why would you put in a 4 Ohm loudspeaker into an enclosure that was designed at 8 Ohm's? You have now squirelled up the performance of the passive X-Over. As changing the impedance of a driver will change the X-Over point. You now probably have a hole in the response at the X-Over point.

The Bi-amped SP-1 requires a 1.6 kHz X-Over point with at least a 3rd order -18 dB per octave Butterworth. A 4th Order -24 dB per octave Linkwitz/Riley would be better.

And yes, it requires CD Horn EQ, with I kind of doubt that it it does. I worked with their DSP unit last week and it does NOT have CD Horn EQ. To put it mildly, I was NOT impressed at all, for lot's of reasons. I'd rather have a Yugo than a "B" product.

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Topic: Bi-amping a SP-1. (4 of 8), Read 26 times
Conf: PA Enclosures
From: MaxDecibel maxdecibel at aol.com
Date: Thursday, February 24, 2005 04:28 PM

It sounds like the model of SP-1 that Webbie has is the old original model as opposed to the newer series of SP-1G or X models etc. He is using the correct 15" spkr. This folded horn low end design does want a 4ohm speaker. Anyway, since he is bi-amping he doesn't need to worry about a change in the passive crossover performance.

Marty, was the Behringer DSP unit you recently used specifically the DCX2496? I am very surprised to hear that it would not have the CD horn EQ function considering all the features that this unit has. Perhaps this function is hidden in some hard to find menu. If Webbie can access some formulas or rta equipment he could get some good use from the delay features of the DCX. (Just the right amount of very short delay setting on the horn driver will time align it to the 15".)

If the DCX indeed does not have the CD horn EQ function, then there is a trick that Marty McCann used to teach in the early years that I believe will work on this SP-1:

Plug the output of the h.f. amp into the NORMAL/FULL RANGE input jack of the speaker. This will route the h.f. signal through the internal passive crossover network which will give the proper (or at least very close to proper) eq and padding.

Plug the output of the l.f. amp into the LOW BIAMP INPUT jack of the speaker. This is the part I'm not sure about on this particular model, but I believe this is a switched jack which will disconnect the l.f. signal path from the passive crossover and replace it with the signal from the l.f. amp which will go straight to the speaker bypassing any crossover components.

I know this method would work on the old SP-1 separate cabinet models (FH-1 and MFX-1). Perhaps Marty M or Aubrey can confirm if this will work on the all in one enclosure.

By the way, I have a pair of FH-1 enclosures with new baskets for sale in the Denver area. Adding a second low end to the SP-1 was common and makes a loud system.

MaxdB

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Topic: Bi-amping a SP-1. (5 of 8), Read 25 times
Conf: PA Enclosures
From: webbie admin at nientje.nl
Date: Thursday, February 24, 2005 04:31 PM

Hello marty,

On 2/24/2005 10:46:44 AM, Marty - pevy016 wrote:
>Why would you put in a 4 Ohm
>loudspeaker into an enclosure
>that was designed at 8 Ohm's?
>You have now squirelled up the
>performance of the passive
>X-Over. As changing the
>impedance of a driver will
>change the X-Over point. You
>now probably have a hole in
>the response at the X-Over
>point.

Original the SP-1 was also equipped with a 1504-4 BW (see spec sheet of the SP-1), the Peavey dealer also advised me the 1504-4.

I think your very wrong, because at another post of this forum, i think it was Aubrey, explained that the enclosure make the 1504-4 8Ohm because of the design of the horn.

Cheers Webbie...


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Topic: Bi-amping a SP-1. (6 of 8), Read 24 times
Conf: PA Enclosures
From: webbie admin at nientje.nl
Date: Thursday, February 24, 2005 05:14 PM

Hello,

Has someone, at this forum, Behringer DCX2496 preset files (*.XPC) of a SP-1 enclosure with 22XT and 1504-4 BW drivers (with CD Horn EQ).

Cheers Webbie...

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Topic: Bi-amping a SP-1. (7 of 8), Read 11 times
Conf: PA Enclosures
From: Aubrey afulton at peavey.com
Date: Friday, February 25, 2005 08:58 AM

Hello,
Yes, you can get away with this with the older original SP speakers. That is you can use the full range input as a high input and it won't adversely affect the crossover. Thanks,
Aubrey Fulton

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Topic: Bi-amping a SP-1. (8 of 8), Read 12 times
Conf: PA Enclosures
From: Marty - pevy016
Date: Friday, February 25, 2005 09:06 AM

Well since I am very seldom wrong, I actually enjoy those few occasions when I can stand corrected. ;>)

I knew when we first came out with an SP-1 as a model that was completely different in design, that somebody would eventually confuse the two. Oops, never thought it would be me, but at least my prediction came true!

Since the more recent SP-1 enclosures were direct radiator Low Pass sections, I only assumed this customers was also. We all know what can happen when you assume something.

If indeed it is the early horn loaded SP-1 then this thread calls for further correction.

The X-Over point should be 600 Hz, it would need about a -7 dB pad on the High End and yes indeed it requires CD Horn EQ.

Can't comment further on the mentioned DSP. Having worked with it for two days, and experiencing too many problems with the computer interface, and frequent crashes, I can only say:
Caveat Emptor!

marty

TCMC schreef:

Heel simpel: Hishelf 6 EQ, 7 KHz, +15 dB, dan heb je hetzelfde als de CD-horn correction op de meeste simpele crossovers. Je hebt dan +3 dB bij 3500 Hz tot +15 dB bij 22 KHz.

Ik vind dit vaak teveel van het goede en nogal moordend voor de meeste tweeters. Meestal ga ik tot +6 dB bij 7 KHz, afhankelijk van de luisterafstand, gewoon luisteren en meten. Ook simpele 1/3 octaaf spectrum analyzers voldoen vrij aardig in het veld.

TCMC

Webbie schreef:

Hallo,

Nog een paar vraagjes tussen door, anders moet ik weer 2 aparte topics er voor openen.

Bedrading:

Moet ik de bedrading van de SP-1's nu ook gaan upgraden (eerst 100 Watt (200 Watt) na de update word het 350 Watt (700 Watt), want ze lijken me nu wel erg dun en welke dikte zou ik moeten nemen?

Signaal Niveau:

Om het niveau van het signaal te regelen heb ik vier opties.
1ste - ingang RM-6
2de - master RM-6
3de - ingang en uitgang DCX-2496
4de - ingang eindversterker (die volgens Peavey helemaal open met staan, om de volle dynamiek te gebruiken van de eindversterker).

Zoals ik weet, moet je alles mooi op "0 DB" afstellen, maar als ik dat doe sta ik echt constant op "oorlogssterkte" te spelen. Waar kan ik het beste het signaal regelen om het gewenste volume te verkrijgen?

Greetz Webbie...

jeroenvdv schreef:

Theoretisch gezien, zou het 't beste zijn, om dat op de uitgang van de DCX-2496 te doen. Dan gaat namelijk het volle line-signaal door de DCX-2496 waardoor daar minder kans is op ontstaan van ruis (verhouding signaal/ruis). De amp klinkt het beste, volgens Peavey, door voluit te staan. Dan is dus het meest logisch om tussen de DCX-2496 en de amp, het volume te varieren.

Theorie klinkt goed

Webbie schreef:

Kan ik een "CD Horn EQ" ook nabootsen op de Behringer DCX-2496?

Dré schreef:

Dus: Meten, luisteren en instellen!

Bedrading:

Moet ik de bedrading van de SP-1's nu ook gaan upgraden (eerst 100 Watt (200 Watt) na de update word het 350 Watt (700 Watt), want ze lijken me nu wel erg dun en welke dikte zou ik moeten nemen?

Signaal Niveau:

Om het niveau van het signaal te regelen heb ik vier opties.
1ste - ingang RM-6
2de - master RM-6
3de - ingang en uitgang DCX-2496
4de - ingang eindversterker (die volgens Peavey helemaal open met staan, om de volle dynamiek te gebruiken van de eindversterker).

Zoals ik weet, moet je alles mooi op "0 DB" afstellen, maar als ik dat doe sta ik echt constant op "oorlogssterkte" te spelen. Waar kan ik het beste het signaal regelen om het gewenste volume te verkrijgen?